My favourite item in the Use Hearing Protection FAC 1-50/40 exhibition is the Fac 27 'Sex Machine alternative sleeve' artwork. It has always intrigued me as to what this actually was (and, indeed, whether or not it actually existed as opposed to just being a concept). During the 'Back in the Cellar' archive project (2009-2019) I uncovered a sketched out drawing which to my mind could have been the "alternative sleeve" - see above.

However, it always seemed a bit too jovial or jocular for a Crawling Chaos sleeve. Now that the true source has been identified (Chapter 13, page 59 of 'La Baronne Steel' by Jim) it seems reasonable to assume that the sketch (probably by AHW) was done as a rather loose interpretation before the final, less-pornographic, sleeve for Fac 17 'Sex Machine' was decided upon (see last image).



Exhibition caption

La Baronne Steel
By Jim

The alternate cover concept for Crawling Chaos's Sex Machine was a Peter Saville design using an image from the book La Baronne Steel (The Baroness Steel) by illustrator Jim. First published by les humanoides asscolés in Belgium in 1976 the book features numerous illustrations by Jim throughout. The image Saville had marked as the potential cover image was on page 59 highlighting Chapter 13.

Note: there is no mention of Rob Gretton who is generally credited on this Fac number in this caption - more information needed.

Fac 17 'Sex Machine' final sleeve

Labels: Crawling_Chaos, exhibition, graphic_design, history, Peter Saville, Rob_Gretton, Use_Hearing_Protection

The Wake formed in Glasgow (Scotland) in April 1981, after singer/guitarist Caesar joined forces with drummer Steven Allen and a bassist, Joe Donnelly. Caesar had previously played with Altered Images and wrote their first single Dead Pop Stars, but elected to leave shortly before the band crashed into the UK charts.

- extract from the LTM biography by James Nice

The interview that follows was conducted via email with Caesar between around 2010 and 2012. Originally planned for Cerysmatic Factory's print fanzine Scream City, it never saw the light of day. This was my fault and down to my dilatory approach. The interview process should take, ideally, about 90 minutes. In this case we're talking 18 months. By which time Scream City's editor had decided it was time for the print project to rest (at least for the moment. Ed.). So, what follows is some talk about the past, from the (5+ years) past.

- Ian McCartney

In a VBS TV "Soft Focus" interview a few years ago, ex-The Wake bassist Bobby Gillespie tells the story of how the band signed to Factory. His version of events seems pretty simple: you basically knock on Rob Gretton's door and hand him a tape, leading to the band recording for Factory. Is this how you remember the events leading up to The Wake's being on the label?

Bobby's version of events is basically right. Some of us went to Manchester. It must've been around January 1982. I'm not sure who was there from the group and who wasn't. Anyway, a Wake delegation went down.

The idea was to visit Richard Boon at the New Hormones office - as well as Rob - to give them a copy of our self-released single On Our Honeymoon. We might have handed in a tape as well as the single - I can't remember - but the main thing was to give both a copy of the record. We were looking to support Buzzcocks or New Order. Also, obviously, we hoped that something might happen label-wise eventually.

Anyway, New Hormones wasn't really operating as a label anymore. Richard Boon had his hands full just managing Buzzcocks of course. But he was very friendly and helpful when we went to see him. I'm not sure how we got Rob's home address. It could be that Richard Boon gave it to us - I can't think how else we would've got it. But Richard Boon was kind enough to advise us a little and he was very encouraging.

However, we managed to find him, Rob was hugely approachable when we turned up at his door. We gave him the single and I got in touch with him shortly after to see if we could do any gigs with New Order. Sure enough something came up immediately; I'm not certain where it was - one internet site mentions Trinity Hall in Bristol 26th Feb 1982 and that sounds about right to me. After playing with them a few times he spoke to us about doing something with Factory. He'd already had a word with Tony about us.

As well as seeing us live, I guess Rob liked the fact we'd done the single independently and had the initiative to take it down to him and so on… The brilliant thing about people like Rob and Richard Boon was that they kept in touch directly with new music. Well, NEW Hormones and NEW Order after all.

Cheekily enough, when Rob asked us to do something - probably having in mind a single or an EP - I said we wanted to do a mini-album even though we were completely unknown. Again, the great thing about Factory then was they just went with an idea and enabled you to do it if they thought there was something behind it. No demos, no proposals, no need to explain what you were trying to achieve. If they believed in you, they backed you.

They booked us into Strawberry Studios in Stockport to record - it was a pretty state-of-the-art studio at that time, part owned by 10cc. I suppose Rob liked the fact they'd provided that facility outside of London.

And that's how we came to make Harmony.



A release like The Wake's debut single On Our Honeymoon would, I'm sure, have had the likes of Virgin records knocking on the door. Were labels other than Factory making offers at the time, and were they considered? Also, how many copies of On Our Honeymoon were pressed?

As for the notion that On Our Honeymoon (1,000 copies pressed) might have had the likes of Virgin Records approaching us that certainly wasn't the case...

I had been signed to a major label for a short time as part of the original line-up of Altered Images. I was the guitarist and wrote quite a lot of their early songs - first single Dead Pop Stars for instance - and I was still potentially contracted to CBS/Epic when I left to form The Wake. Even though I could've been tied to them legally they had absolutely no interest in keeping me on fortunately. We didn't contact any majors re The Wake.

It's hard to realise now the impact the new independent labels were having - we think of indie music as a genre, a style of music, whereas back then it was actually an explosion of small labels like Fast, Rough Trade, Factory and Postcard - and they were just the better known ones. It wasn't a guitar based beat group style of music at all - there were all kinds of musical approaches out there - it was more a way of thinking about how to keep creative control.



Unlike previous independents like, say, Stiff Records, labels like Factory weren't just calling cards to try and get a major deal, they were labels that appeared to be saying this is a way ahead - responding to the supposed ideals of punk - a new way of doing things, a new way of releasing music, and we were really attracted to that and thought it was the way forward for The Wake. Personally speaking, I would've seen The Distractions single on Factory, Time Goes By So Slow, that record, the song itself, the way it was presented by Factory, as some sort of ideal, that was what I wanted the group to be doing, that was the template.

Major label interest actually came later around the time of Talk About The Past. Just as that was about to come out on Factory we signed a publishing deal with Blue Mountain Music which was a company connected to Island Records. When we signed that deal, which came off the back of a headlining gig at the Hacienda, the boss of Island at the time - it was Dave Robinson who had started Stiff Records - heard Talk About The Past playing in the Blue Mountain office - and in true corny showbiz style burst into the room saying, ‘That‘s a hit! Who is it? They‘ve got a deal.'

Not too surprisingly, in subsequent meetings, when it came down to the details of signing to the label for real, some conflicts arose. The main problem was our determination to choose which songs could be released as singles. Another big stumbling block was our suggestion that singles might not necessarily appear on albums as was our way of doing things at Factory. Also we wanted final say on - and the option to design - all artwork including any advertising. Basically we were trying to retain the creative controls we had at Factory. This was the ultimate test for us - had this so-called major learned any lessons from smaller labels like Factory? And, of course, they hadn't taken the slightest bit of notice. So the deal never happened.

In any case, Tony really encouraged us to follow up on any major label interest. He was always very open about that. He was pleased when bigger labels took an interest in the Factory groups.

Around the same time, we recorded a session for the David Jensen Show on BBC Radio and the broadcast led to phone calls from - and meetings with - a few other well-known labels but it never came to anything.

We were always trying to move forward on a creative level - that was the main thing - and Factory was the right place to be when working on the Here Comes Everybody album which was coming next.



The Wake's time at Factory was about five or six years. Starting round about sometime in 1981, with the final release Something That No One Else Could Bring being in 1987. Now, I'm not trying to be a cheeky bastard (and please correct me if I've got it wrong) but by my reckoning the sales of the records wouldn't have paid enough to live off. Did you have another way of making money during these years?

...and did you have any discussions about moving elsewhere?

You're so wrong - we were living the dream and owned properties across the world. OK - I'm only kidding.

Record sales weren't enough to live from on a regular basis but we got occasional royalties and made money from gigs. Basically, we went through phases of having enough to get by on and some times of signing on and doing a few part time jobs now and then. The publishing deal made a big difference as it involved an advance.

Certainly now we make more from the LTM reissues than we ever did from the original Factory recordings. Then again, the records wouldn't exist at all without Factory's considerable financial input.

As mentioned before, we had major label interest around the time of Talk About The Past. The one we took most seriously was when Sounds journalist Dave McCullough, Geoff Travis (Rough Trade) and Mike Alway (Cherry Red) started up Blanco y Negro Records through Warners and there was definite interest from Dave in his new role as head of A & R. In the end we stuck with Factory for as long as we felt a connection. Possibly it was the right place for us to be all that time although it changed later.



--

End of part one.

See also: part two

Labels: interview, New_Order, Rob_Gretton, The_Wake, The_Wake_interview, Vini_Reilly

A one-page "mission statement" by Tony Wilson for Red Cellars¹ which, following a name change, became F4 Records:

---

"WHAT IS RED CELLAR?
red cellars???

1. THE NEW FACTORY RECORDS

"I try to open up the freedom within the artist himself, to help him discover what he believed his message to be.... to bring out that curiosity, to encourage that area of creative difference, to stifle not even the smallest element of exploration." Sam Philips

2. WE ARE AN INDEPENDENT RECORD COMPANY BASED IN MANCHESTER, ENGLAND

"I just put some records out with me mates" Rob Gretton

Factory after all is merely about people, about the way people work, the way Red Cellar works.

3. WE MANUFACTURE AND DISTRIBUTE OUT OF MANCHESTER

"The mode of production determines the mode of consciousness" Hegel

Sign - one major band per annum for the first two years and up to six "interesting bands" per year released through "Sticky Paw", Red Cellar underground imprint.

Business Plan

"A merchant is he who buys cheap and sells dear be he Gentile or Jew" James Joyce

Nothing is as cheap as great art when it's fresh, cause no-one wants it.

We sign bands for £80,000 not £180,000. Some we sign for £30,000. No bidding wars because no-one else will bid when it's that early. "I hear a hit single" - "No you fucking don't - they haven't written it yet." Cf 'Love will tear us apart",

We sign bands without hit singles, cause they haven't written them yet."

---

¹ - the provisional title of F4, "Red Cellars" was derived from the following famous extract from Ivan Chtcheglov's Formula For A New Urbanism (1953): "... And you, forgotten, your memories ravaged by all the consternations of two hemispheres, stranded in the Red Cellars of Pali-Kao, without music and without geography, no longer setting out for the hacienda where the roots think of the child and where the wine is finished off with fables from an old almanac. That's all over. You'll never see the hacienda. It doesn’t exist. The hacienda must be built."

See also: FAC 51 The Hacienda and FAC 511 And you forgotten

Labels: back_in_the_cellar, F4_Records, Red_Cellars, Rob_Gretton, Tony_Wilson

Pop Noir are an LA band who you might remember from when they did Do the Du with DoJo a few years ago.

Their FAC ancestry comes from the lads' father being Steve McGarry who designed sleeves for Slaughter & The Dogs and did the one for Joy Division's Ideal for Living.

This cover version of New Order's Temptation was released earlier this year in honour of what would've been Rob Gretton's 60th birthday.

Labels: cover_version, New_Order, Pop_Noir, Rob_Gretton

On 14 May, Gabrielle's Wish headline an evening of music to celebrate the life of one of Manchester's genuine music pioneers, Rob Gretton. Rob worked furiously to promote music from Manchester and the North, and dicovered the likes ofJoy Division, Sub Sub / Doves, and of course, Gabrielle's Wish.

The evening is being held at the old 'HQ' of Robs Records (and top notch boozer), the Briton's Protection public house in Manchester.

Tickets are priced at £5 and are available from Butterfly Records, or on request from the Gabrielle's Wish MySpace. More info at the Facebook group for this event.

Labels: Gabrielles_Wish, Rob_Gretton

It was recently announced that the historic Manchester upstairs/downstairs club combo Jilly's and Rockworld have closed for good, with John Bagnall - owner of the clubs since 1981 - going into liquidation.

The venue originally opened as a true 'chicken-in-a-basket' variety/music clubs Fagins (upstairs) and Rafters (downstairs) during the sixties and seventies.

With resident DJ Rob Gretton the sticky carpet venues ran late-seventies punk and new wave gigs, eventually hosting the Alan Wise-produced post-Russell, pre-Hacienda Factory Club during the early eighties.

Fond memories include Fad Gadget climbing the Rafters, the four comrades sat round a table in silence that suddenly alighted to the stage and became DAF, the Hook/Mason promoted IKON Video supported by Stockholm Monsters, The Birthday Party's first drunken gig, and who could forget the infamous Slim/Pete Murphy onstage stand-off!

Labels: Manchester, Rob_Gretton, venues

In this excellent video (Go to Player, it's in Part 2) on VBS TV, Primal Scream's Bobby Gillespie talks about how he joined The Wake, sent a demo tape to and then met Rob Gretton followed by supporting New Order and borrowing Peter Hook's bass guitar.

Labels: New_Order, Peter_Hook, Rob_Gretton, The_Wake

A FAC Football First XI

World Cup Fever again grips the nation and to celebrate Cerysmatic Factory runs through its Factory Football First XI:

1. Factory issued a red t-shirt in 1991 which bore the fourth generation 'Factory' logo and the Manchester United crest. Frank Brinkhuis has a picture of one in his excellent Image Banque.

2. The Hand of God - Factory issued a promotional football to as part of its "advertising campaign" for this New Order single (FAC 193). 30 Adidas Aztec Maya soccer balls were made with the Touched By The Hand Of God graphic design (as found on the 12" inner sleeve) printed on them, but no Factory number.

3. FAC 293 'World in Motion' - This was the official England World Cup song by England New Order and it got to number one in the UK charts. England got to the semi-final that year. This year the official song was by Embrace and it only got to number 29 in the UK charts. Time will tell how far England go this time.

4. The silky skills - Vini Reilly, Johnny Marr and Jez Kerr were all very good footballers in their youth and were even offered trials with City or United.

5. The theme tune #1 - New Order provided the theme music for the football show 'Best & Marsh' presented by George Best and Rodney Marsh (the latter being the nearest this list gets to any QPR connection!). The tune was released as one of the b-sides on 'Round & round' (FAC 263).

6. The theme tune #2 - 'Moody Places' by Northside was for a long time the theme music for ITV's Soccer Night presented by the legendary Elton Welsby. The track was the b-side to 'Shall We Take A Trip?' (FAC 268).

7. The protest song - 'We'll Never Die' was a single by Hanky Park vs Peter Hook released in protest at the Glazers' takeover at Manchester United.

8. The chance meeting - Rob Gretton met Mike Pickering after they fell in a hedge together following a City match.

9. So farewell then - Lifelong City season ticket holder Kevin Cummins published a book of photographs called 'We're Not Really Here: Manchester City's Final Season at Maine Road'.

10. The divided loyalties - The following is from 'Torn Apart: The Life of Ian Curtis' by Mick Middles and Lindsay Reade: Although Ian (Curtis) has been portrayed as a Manchester City fan, his family cast doubts on this. "I wouldn't have put him down as a City fan," said Carole (his sister). As a young boy he was more of a United fan. He got their programmes. Debbie (Curtis) says he was a City fan but she's got a picture of him in her book wearing a United top."

11. The cash-in? - Warners approached New Order during the 1990 World Cup with a treatment for a proposed Heinz Tomato Ketchup TV advert using a rewritten E for England soundtrack. The advert was to feature lookalike England players (including a 'Gazza' squirting water from his eyes) playing ketchup keepy-uppy to the strains of "We're eating for England....". Alas (?) it never happened...

Labels: football, Ian_Curtis, Kevin_Cummins, Mike_Pickering, New_Order, Northside, Peter_Hook, Rob_Gretton, T-Shirt

In a further extract from the Observer Music Monthly Fac 511, Vini Reilly of The Durutti Column recounts what Rob Gretton meant to him: "Two things stick in my mind about Rob. The first was an occasion when a dodgy friend of mine needed bail money to get out of Strangeways. The money couldn't appear to come from me. Rob passed no judgmental advice - he simply raised what was a large cash deposit, in about 20 minutes. I think his Catholic upbringing and his awareness of Manchester's underworld were somehow not at odds. The second thing I remember is his genuine concern for anyone slightly lost. If he spotted anyone not joining in - through shyness or whatever - Rob would gently but firmly ensure they became included. His care and almost parental affection for Nat Curtis after her father, Ian, had gone, is something Nat still remembers to this day. It's very telling that when Nat visited the set of 24 Hour Party People her favourite character was the actor playing Rob. Rob Gretton was a good and true man, a paradox - tough guy, sensitive and caring gentleman. A visionary who is very much missed."

In fewer words, but no less heartfelt, New Order on Rob Gretton: "He was a part of us, without him we would be like a piece of banoffee pie with a slice missing."

Labels: New_Order, Rob_Gretton, The_Durutti_Column

Bruce Mitchell of The Durutti Column remembers Rob Gretton (from 'The Observer Music Monthly Fac 511'): "The Durutti Column were recording 'Another Setting' in Strawberry Studios. Rob quietly entered, sat behind the desk, and settled into a smoking reverie. Thirty minutes passed before 'Are you still being managed by Wilson and Erasmus?' he asked. 'You need to get yourself better than that pair of monkeys.' He smiled, beaming around the room waiting for a reaction. But before we could offer him the job, he took a Jimmy Page drag on his cigarette, shouted 'Sorry, I'm busy', pushed his glasses up his nose and walked out gurgling happily."

Labels: Alan_Erasmus, Rob_Gretton, The_Durutti_Column, Tony_Wilson

This article about Rob Gretton by Mick Middles appeared in The Guide section of thisischeshire.co.uk last week before Fac 511. It contains an amusing anecdote about Rob telling Rolling Stone's photographer how he was absolutely would not be getting a photograph of New Order at a date on their American tour.

Labels: Mick_Middles, New_Order, Rob_Gretton

There's a short but entertaining review of the events at Fac 511 on the Guardian newspaper's website. The Guardian's sister paper, the Observer and in particular its Music Monthly was a partner in the production of the Fac 511 event and was responsible for a free booklet distributed at the event. This includes the reminiscences of various Factory and Manchester music luminaries on the life of Rob Gretton, a Q&A session between Tony Wilson and Peter Saville and, in the inside cover, a rather amusing advert for the paper itself featuring... guess who...

Labels: Peter_Saville, Rob_Gretton, Tony_Wilson

The memorial gig for Rob Gretton at The Ritz, Fac 511 And You Forgotten, was a fitting tribute. Highlights included Tony Wilson's entertaining reading from Leaving The 20th Century, Bernard Sumner's appearance with Doves singing Bizarre Love Triangle, a storming set from A Certain Ratio climaxing with Hooky appearing to play with them on Heart and Soul. Pickering and Park then brought the house down.

Full report to come but for now check out the photo gallery.

Labels: A_Certain_Ratio, Rob_Gretton, Tony_Wilson

"Plenty has been written before about Rob Gretton and his place in the Manchester music scene. Most of it focuses on his role as co-founder of the Haçienda, or his management of Joy Division and New Order. Very little has been said of his post-Haç career, and practically nothing about his involvement with Sub Sub/Doves."

So begins an excellent biographical website page on Rob which goes a long way to filling the very gap it mentions. It is required reading for those who did and didn't know Rob Gretton.

Thanks to Conor for the link.

Labels: Joy_Division, New_Order, Rob_Gretton

And you forgotten to get your tickets for the sold out Fac 511 Rob Gretton Memorial Event this Sunday 23 May? Don't despair (too much), the Observer Music Monthly ran an article on the event (featuring the classic 'Disco Rob' photo by Kevin Cummins) last Sunday and has 20 tickets to give away. Closing date is today so rush to www.observermusicmonthly.co.uk.

Labels: Kevin_Cummins, Rob_Gretton

The Manchester Evening News reports on the forthcoming Fac 511: And You Forgotten - A Memorial Event for Rob Gretton: "Rob was a man who changed and shaped the Manchester music scene to such an extent that the past is now legend and the present still an ongoing part of the legacy," says a spokeswoman for the event.

Tickets are selling well so hurry up to get yours.

Labels: FAC511_And_You_Forgotten, Rob_Gretton

And You Forgotten: A Memorial Event for Rob Gretton which will be held on 23 May 2004 at The Ritz, Manchester, was given the Factory catalogue number Fac 511 by Tony Wilson because Rob would have been 51 this year.

A number of posters for the event are now available from Colin at Vinyl Revival - contact him directly for more info. The posters (52" x 32" and [edit] A3 size) are designed by Peter Saville and Trevor Johnson and are £15 each for the large ones and a fiver for the small ones with proceeds going to the charity of the choice of Rob's wife Lesley.

Labels: Peter_Saville, poster, Rob_Gretton, Tony_Wilson, Trevor_Johnson, Vinyl_Revival

Check out the v1.0 discography of Rob's Records, the record label set up by the late Rob Gretton which featured releases by A Certain Ratio and Sub Sub (who were later to mutate into Doves). All comments / suggestions / corrections / cover scans welcome!

Labels: A_Certain_Ratio, Doves, Rob_Gretton, Robs_Records, Sub_Sub

According to a totally unconfirmed thread on the Popbitch messageboard [thanks to AJ for spotting] a Rob Gretton tribute concert is planned in the near future. Doves, A Certain Ratio and even possibly New Order could appear.

Labels: A_Certain_Ratio, Doves, New_Order, Rob_Gretton

Just how did Fac 51 The Haçienda get its cedilla?

Legend has it that although Spanish has no cedilla (unlike French), Rob Gretton wanted the title of his new baby to have one so that when the ç and the i nestled up close to one another, they spelt '51'.

Next week, "How did Motörhead get their umlaut?"

Labels: FAC51_The_Hacienda, Rob_Gretton

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